Loading ...I understand…was just commenting on a topic I had been meaning to discuss…and kept forgetting. I saw the chart on the stages of the investment cycle…and decided I was not sure where gaudens and liberties fit in….as they have slowly been increasing (at least the near bullion graded ones)…but not by much and investors are not very interested in them..Thx.
tops usually have heavy volume and lots of buyers, always the shorts trying to get out. most tops in the futures market are composed of heavy volume, declining open interest and limit move. when all three are present, look for a top.
rno
I have experienced the same thing. The only thing I would consider buying would be Gaudens or $20 Liberties at like 1 - 2% premiums to spot….they will be ungraded lower quality…but I consider these to be like buying bullion. Every six months or so…I will check prices on the higher graded coins I have….and I think…great….gold went up 15%….and to my disappointment…the prices of my coins decreased. Not a horrible investment….as virtually every coin I have has increased in value…the worst are near even…but bullion was way better….which fortunately is most of what I invested in.
I think part of it…may be generational. My coin guy gets flooded with folks who inherited an estate (spouses and children) and the first thing they do is run out and sell the gold..and alot of it was purchased in the late 1980’s by folks who were probably at the time…in their late 50’s or 60’s…and when the pass on 20 years later…the beneficiaries have 0 interest in holding onto some old gold coin. It happens to bullion alot also….but bullion is sold worldwide… The buyers willing to pay a premium for graded coins….unfortunately…alot of them are getting too old and it does not appear the younger generation is interested. The younger folks with money…want art, diamonds and other stuff……not pre 1933 gold coins.
$20 Liberty and Gaudens. Was only mentioned because these would of only been available for my Grandfather to purchase in his life time. Was not intended for investment advise.
ahhh you give me too much ‘crebit’. i’ve sure taken some slam dunks thru the years especially in the begining times but the drive has always been to refine an ability to simply make money on demand of which i have been very comfortable with for a number of years now but nevertheless there was a price paid in the ‘on the job training’ so to speak. [g]
anybody can do it. just takes the right motive and its not in the money accumulation i speak but in the ‘tecnique’ of doing it on demand without rush and no overtrading and no get rich ‘to da moon’ themes. last year as an example i was cooking in the first half up 240% of target but in the second half gave back half to finish the year 125% of target. so we win some and lose some but always trade conservitivly watching money management.
this year since i’ve changed my ways from position trading to snatch and grab better known as ‘nickle flipping’ i still have an annual target but somewhat higher now that there will be way more trading activity in futures as ’snatch and grab’ opposed to ‘position’ trading. a new year a new adventure and a blank chart since history of pog is being written as we speak. i say to the cabal…lets ‘get it on’ yahui! cheers. wj
…….Thanks so much for posting your experiences…
…Best FGC
I read your post with interest as I have noticed and felt the exact same thing in regards to certified saints and liberities. When the grading services first came on the scene in ‘86 or ‘87 I believe, there was a Huge premieun for highly graded gold. Those premieums topped out in ‘89 or ‘90 and it has been down hill since. A couple of years ago noticing the reduced premieums I bought some of them. HA…….did somebody mention ‘catching a falling knife’!! I still have made money on them but like you, would have done better with strickly bullion. “Going up grudgingly” discribes this market perfectly. With premieums as low as they are, I would be foolish to sell at this time. So I will just hold them and think of them as bullion. Will the premieums come back? Who knows, I wouldn’t advise any one to buy them right now though. The confication issue is the only possitive I can think these coins hold. And that is ‘iffy’.
Best
Dusty
Lol
Nice play on Greenspans words I like it. While I am too young to remember JKF or Martin Luther King, I have seen the pictures of the marches on Washington. I have heard speaches, read documents and listened to stories of those older than I. It is possible for someone to believe in something and still fail to live up to that belief. I fear that is what America is like today.
People will say they believe in freedom. Warriors will gladly pound their chests and say what a great effort we gave on the battlefield even after a crushing defeat. Perhaps this is my generations battle and perhaps we will suffer a great defeat. All I know is that history is written by those who have hanged heroes. I will do my part the best I am able to for freedom. The problem I have is the generations that have come before me.
They have said the generation that came out of the great depression and fought in WWII is one of the greatest generations to ever live. If that is true and they understood what freedom and liberty truly are, then why are they not gathering around the flag?
According to CNN, and this is with a grain of salt, but the majority of all voters both democratic and republican were over 50 years of age with 60% of the votes. My generation 30 - 44 and beneath me make up about 40 percent of the votes cast in the primary. I had a lady who stopped me the night before elections on the 5th while we were passing out DVD’s and holding signs. I would say she was in her late 50’s early 60’s. She said she was from Texas and that Ron Paul was “crazy.” In fact if he made it into office she would “cry”.
I asked her who she thought would make a good canidate. She said she was voting for Rudy, who at this point had dropped out and endorsed McCain. When I informed her of this she called me a liar. I told her about his endorcement and she stated that she would not vote for McCain. I told her at least that is a step in the right direction. We talked from he car window until the light turned green then she and husband drove off into the night.
Do I think I won her over? No, but I hope she went home to at least confirm that Rudy had dropped out of the race. I agree with Silver_Rider and his quote from Churchhill.
Something about you understand the failing of democracy by spending 5 minutes talking to the average voter. People just don’t have a clue. I hope this election, this rally, this message can wake up enough people. Maybe one day I can tell my children about a rally in D.C that changed the course of human events. Wouldn’t that be a grand story to tell.
Dr. J
Hi Bill, Paulsen has his fantastic idea. Now he is going to do it. Doesn’t anyone in the entire administration have any thoughts on unintended consequences? So 6 insolvent banks, for the good of the nation, will review people who are going into foreclosure, or are there now. If any of them have a prayer and some assets, they will get a new loan package that will just postpone the day of reckoning. Then time runs out.
Now the tree has been shaken and all the good fruit picked up. The mortgage foreclosure issue is done, “they did all they could”. Fanny and Freddy have a new bunch of paper and the banks have a bunch of new money in fees that they extracted from these folks that they screwed the first time.
Then we have a mortgage hard landing. Follow the money, and the mortgage world will be now be depleted financially as to the folks with adjustable rate loans. The remaining adjustable rate people will live in fear until the foreclosure notice arrives. In just under four more years the adjustable rate loans will all be reset, the problem of foreclosures pretty much done.
What do we do with three million families that are now living in tents all over the nation? How can the communities figure out the proper tax rate on a tent will be the big problem. Boy, do we have a disaster coming our way.
Roger
I have some obscure questions ( to mantain your anomosity) to ask you for 3 reasons,
1. I am trying to show my kids how the media manipulates us,
2. Railing against the anti goldbug money machine created a curiousity (or vice versa) for which you are within your rights to tell me to take a hike,
3. You seem to need to exercise some demons and have found a sounding board.
In regards to last nights post, were the bullets zinging past you in your capacity with CBN or the militaryÉ ( thatès a question mark)
Was CBN a cover and did Coleman know you in another capacityÉ.
How much was the Time story discredited because it was pretty close to the truthÉ. How do 5 CIA agents linked to the scheme vapourize on coincidence aloneÉ
Appreciate being under the radar and have no intentions of rattling you, mm
Bill,
It seems to me that the issue of how long the gold suppression scheme can last may ultimately be related to how long the fiat money system itself can continue — and vice versa. Intelligent observers and high-ranking government officials (note that these are two distinct categories) understand that the current financial system is teetering on the edge of an abyss. If the dollar-based system of international payments falters, then the entire global economic system will freeze up and contract, as there will be no universally accepted medium of exchange; or at least not one that the ruling class wants to consider.
Given the circumstances, it is not bizarre to expect this to happen in the near future. I cannot help but think, though, that there are some powerful dynamics that will stretch out the process.
The first factor is that the central banks and governments of this planet are all shackled with huge quantities of reserves called dollars. The financial power of the governments is rooted in these reserves. They provide stability, wealth, favors, the option to intervene in markets and industry, etc. If the US Dollar blows away, then so does the legitimacy of the world’s currencies. So, as long as this situation persists, the banks are going to be Dollar supportive.
Second on the list is that while the Dollar system endures, central banks have proven themselves adept at preventing the financial system from completely freezing up. From bankrupt Japanese banks to blown-up hedge funds to British bank runs, the fiat system has kept the doors open and the wheels turning by spewing out more and more credit—even though this credit is destined to eventually decay into worthlessness. Still, as long as the public accepts unbacked paper bills as “money”, the process can continue (which, by the way, is the reason that the government took the tiny silver-backed Liberty Dollar challenge so seriously).
Third, while American corporations have spent the last 2 _ decades exporting their factories and productive capacity abroad, their customers have not moved. That means the countries in which those new factories were built must choose between accepting Dollars for payment, or by shutting their factory doors. If governments choose to shut the doors by rejecting the US Dollar as a form of payment, their newly emerged middle class will be sent hurtling back into poverty; something that will cause riots and very probably regime changes.
It should come as no surprise, then, that no one has chosen to shut any factories. Instead, they are piling up Dollar surpluses, which they are now trying to dump on someone else through “Sovereign Wealth Funds.” A “Sovereign Wealth Fund” is a fancy name for a “What the Heck Do I Do with All These Blankety-Blank Greenbacks?” Fund. The obvious answer is; you spend them before they become worthless. This is a major reason why the fiat system will continually lose value, but not be allowed to fail; the Sovereign Wealth Funds haven’t spent their money, yet.
The current situation reminds me of the start of a grand game of Monopoly in which all the properties are still for sale. In this Monopoly game the properties are the assets of the issuer of US Dollars, the USA. Choice properties include railroads and public works (for example, freeways that will soon become tollways), natural resource companies, utilities, corporations that actually produce something (financial services companies need not apply) and all holders of valuable tangible goods. As long as there are desirable properties left on the board, the players will be loath to see the game end; they prefer to remain at the table and support the Dollar reserve system.
How does one support the Dollar system? One way is to support the suppression of the price of gold, since gold is the most visible symbol of fiat money’s weakness. That means that central banks will be under pressure to sell more gold than they would otherwise. That also means using up all of the “easy” options to sell gold—like the IMF’s hoard.
(A tangent to the discussion of the proposed IMF sale is that I don’t believe it can be conducted like an earlier IMF sale, where gold was just transferred from one official entity to another. That would do nothing to tamp down the market price of the yellow metal, which is what the CB’s need. With gold production falling steeply, the governments need a sale along the lines of Gordon Brown’s—where gold was sold directly onto the open market. The sellers are in for a surprise, though; the gold market is a lot more active and deeper now than it was when the English dumped their reserves. If the U.S. Congress ever approves the sale, the IMF gold is likely to quickly be absorbed and one of the gold market’s last supply overhangs will be eliminated.)
So it looks to me like the prospects for an immediate crash are not high—or at least there are a lot of motivated governments that don’t want to see that happen, yet. Instead we will likely get a sequence of financial crises as clusters of stupidity and cupidity surface and are acknowledged. Each episode will, in its turn, be responded to with the emollient of a new flood of paper money and credit. Each trauma will further hollow out the system. A failure at any time to keep gold in sufficient supply will lead to a cataclysm and thus, every trick in the book will be used to convince market participants that enough gold is still available—fraud being near the top of the list. Even so, this activity will only slow the gold market’s ascent, not stop it, until the day the comes that gold suddenly rockets out of the atmosphere into a realm where dollars are no longer used as a measure of the yellow metal’s price.
Best wishes,
Peter R.
www.pandacollector.com
OMAHA, Neb. - Two of the three troubled bond insurers billionaire investor Warren Buffett offered to help have rejected extra guarantees on municipal bonds.
Ambac Financial Group Inc. said in a statement Tuesday that the reinsurance that Omaha-based Berkshire Hathaway Inc. is offering wouldn’t be in the best interests of the bond insurer or all of its policyholders.
Buffett said Tuesday morning that one of the three bond insurers Berkshire offered reinsurance to had already said no, but he didn’t say which one declined.
Ambac spokesman Peter Poillon says that his company was not the one Buffet was referring to and that it did not respond to Berkshire before issuing its statement.
Besides Ambac, MBIA Inc. and Financial Guaranty Insurance Co. also received reinsurance offers from Berkshire.
___
Equisetum and silverffox52 - I can tell you that there is not alot of interest in some of the higher quality (MS graded) $20 Liberty and Gaudens. They appear to be grudgingly going up with the price of gold…but many were higher when gold was $500 or $600 per ounce in 2005. I bought a few of the ms65 graded coins a few years ago…and I am still down on my initial purchase price…and I purchased the coins right (at the time) and paid under market. The best source for pricing this stuff is gavelprices . com ….prices have gone up alot since Mid 2007…..but they have really only only tracked the bullion price for the most part. Fortunately…I put an extremely small percentage into this investment…most funds went into bullion and stocks (mostly from 1998 - 2002)…
Kind of strange…their used to be a big premium in the higher graded stuff…but no longer. Premiums are going away.. I was able to buy some $20 Liberty/Gauden coins in 2007 at Spot plus 1%…they ended up being graded AU…so in my view..this market has little interest…but then again…I am no expert. I just thought…they should have a little more premium value than almost melt value..which they do..but not much!
If I had to do it all over again..I would have just stuck with Krugerrands. Way easier to buy and sell and no “research” required… I thought I would try something different for a little while..and it was not worth it.
It’s all yours— Came in a e-mail today
