I like this too…Midas

Peter R…

I once had a teacher who liked to say, “You can call a bull a cow, but you can’t milk it.” I’m reminded of this bit of wisdom as I watch the goings-on in the precious metals markets. Though Comex can try to pin a $750/oz. price on gold and a $10/oz. price on silver, not many holders will sell at those levels, so the supply has dried up. In India, for instance, Reuters reports, “…imports (of silver) stood around 800 tonnes so far this year as against around 2,280 tonnes in all of last year.” Why, you ask? Again, Reuters, “Many banks are unable to get silver even if we tell them we will give them the full sum of money for the consignment,” said Daman Prakash…a wholesaler in Chennai.”1

But the global shortage of metal in the retail channel is already an old story around here. What we all want to know is, what will put an end to this sham? An essential step will be to sweep away the sources of false price information — like the commodity exchanges. As their warehouses empty, their power to influence prices will wither, too. Up until now, though, that’s been easier to predict than to do. The ante for a single contract’s worth of gold is about $80,000 (for 100 oz.) at this time; steep enough to discourage all but the most well-heeled and ardent retail buyers. This barrier allows the exchanges to continue their paper shuffling game among players who nearly never take delivery.

It’s been said that the cure for high prices is high prices. That applies equally well to low prices. We’ve lately been hearing about how investors and traders are moving to capture the vast gap between Comex and retail silver prices. Now comes an announcement that the same process is underway in gold.

One week ago, Boris Collardi, the CEO of Zurich-based Bank Julius Baer commented, “Right now, you are seeing a very strong focus on real assets, financial investments…You’ll probably find right now that clients who have ordered a luxury car may reconsider that order.”2 Today the same bank moved to take advantage of the cockamamie Comex price scheme when they announced, “Julius Baer Holding AG…is launching a physical gold fund, meant as a safe harbor from turmoil on securities markets. The fund invests in 400-ounce gold bars, is hedged against currency fluctuations and offers investors the option of physical delivery in gold.”3

It seems clear that the availability of cheap precious metals in the Comex gold and silver warehouses has now drawn the attention of participants who are not intimidated by its contract sizes, margin requirements or other barriers to entry. At the same time, abysmally low prices are causing many mines to shut down, strangling supply further. The bears are trapped: if they don’t permit a rapid rise in the exchange prices of precious metals to bring them into line with real-world levels, they are destined to soon be cleaned out; shut down by the same market forces they have for so long insulted.
Best wishes,
Peter R.

FGC

How do I calculate the value now? I am too sick to look. So we must be getting close to some kind of a bottom. I hope. LOL. This has not been fun.

Silver in Dishwashers? Never…….

My wife will not put the silver in a dish washer.

That’s why she employs me.
And frankly, to me, it seems you Winedock got a hellova good deal.

I know a few Tentsters try to follow my very very infrequent Gardener guy updates…. so ……

A short Gardener guy update………

…….he has another much more lucrative job than cutting our grass.

Clearing out defaulted rental container shed/boxes. At those ubiquitos 10 x 15 or maybe 20′ sheds. When the owners (renters thereof) do not pay their annual dues.

So………his contract is, when the park owner cuts the lock …….”CLEAR it all out.”
Get it all out……here’s your $100 cash…….now truck it away.

And so, he and wife check everything down to the junk, sort the ‘good’ stuff for their weekend yard sale, said in one clearing he found a whole multi level box full of Sterling Silver flatware.
Never showed it to me..{wish he would have given me a first shot] ..but he said it was one of his finest rental shed cleaning jobs he’s had in months.

Took it to some buyer……..sold it for around $2,500 and has NO idea what it’s Silver value was.
Guy keeps on keeping on.
I admire him. He brings me stuff like SOLAR Panels…Sweepers, Binoculars, just gives them to me……and all kinds of stuff.

Been to his Sunday sales……….guess he clears another $1k from ‘junque’ cleared out of the sheds every week.

Polymetallic: Sterling Silver Flatware

I bought a 6 place setting of Sterling Silver Flatware on EBay last week and received it today. The pattern is Normandy Rose by Northumbria. I paid less than melt value for silver at 10 bucks, so I’m pleased and Mrs Winedoc likes it.

Question…..I want to use it for everyday flatware….can I put it in the dishwasher (is this safe) or should it be washed by hand??

northumbria_normandy_rose_sterling_date_unknown_fork_p0000177517s0002t2.jpg

Winedoc

tfh……….good point !….Bad habbit !

………We are still acustomed to using Comex for our Reference points on POS and POG

.thats why we need a new physical pricing mechanism…as proposed tonite…..

….Real Transactions could be ammassed and the Physical price of an ounce of real metal could be reported and charted in real time…….Then we would be able to calculate a new ratio chart

Real Gold : Fools Gold ( Comex) Ratio…

….its starting already…………….

..when you calculate the value of your Physical which Number do you use >?

winedoc

fabulous purchase.
hand wash it.

FGC Silver Over 10

If its only the paper price and therefore meaningless why is it psychologically important? One day up with Gold down does not a trend make. But there is always hope.

Adrian and Bill H from Midas

More from Adrian re Paulson…

Bill,
Has “outrage” been banned in America? Does no one have their blood boiling at Paulson telling the banks they are expected to use part of the bailout money to make acquisitions?! This is incredible! This is free money for the banking cartel to swallow up the small fry competition and make the Cartel an unchallenged monopoly and to add insult to injury to do it with our money! This is a re-run of the panic of 1907.

QUOTE

www.marketwatch.com/news/story/
bank-deals-fueling-otherwise-moribund/story.aspx?guid=
%7BB4F01009%2D02B1%2D4C6E%2D8498%2D806CD8CEEB6D%7D

Banks don’t need cash for M&A

Commentary: Paulson’s plea for banks to use bailout funds

By MarketWatch

Last update: 1:05 p.m. EDT Oct. 21,

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is hinting that the $250 billion cash infusion aimed at nine banks is coming with strings. Banks will be expected not only to lend the new money but to buy weaker rivals as part of the plan giving government ownership stakes in financial giants such as Bank of America Corp

END

The TARP must rate as the biggest heist in history after the Federal Reserve Act. The Congress was told that the people were going to be robbed blind by using taxpayer money to buy bad assets from banks that should have gone bankrupt AND then they voted for it!

I have heard of consensual sex but never consensual larceny.
Cheers
Adrian

Bill H:

To all; do you get the sense that governments are now crippled? The banking and currency systems were ridden hard for years with many reflations blowing the balloons until they burst. This has been the big one. Governments have pulled all stops with this one and it really looks like they are panicking. I say panic because of the call for Bretton Woods II. If this current system were fixable, don’t you think they would? Yes, they have been trying for over a year now and many a trial balloon has been launched with great fanfare that the latest “plan” would be the fixer. None have worked and the result has been money supplies that have absolutely exploded and debt in copious amounts added to already mountainous amounts.

This is the rub, money supply and new debt. I believe that foreigners have done the math and understand that without a change of reserve currency the global financial system is doomed. I’m sure that the math has been done in Washington but the Rubin doctrine [spend whatever is necessary to buy just six months more time] has been invoked time after time. I’m sure Washington would never admit we have failed and voluntarily withdraw from the position of “master of the universe”. Foreigners are demanding US withdrawal. The call for a new Bretton Woods is admission by foreigners that the system has failed and the only way to reflate is to abandon the Dollar and move to a basket reserve currency.

The calls for a BW II is a huge event, one that only occurs rarely. Bretton Woods II will be the most significant financial event in our lifetimes. If it doesn’t get passed or agreed upon, the marketplace will create it’s own changing of the guard [reserve currency]. Make no mistake about it, we have a huge change in currency markets directly ahead. This has been called a credit crunch for over a year now, however when history is written I believe this episode will be explained as the greatest currency crisis of all time. No Ponzi scheme in history has worked for obvious reasons. When the smoke clears and we look back we will see that since 1971, the Dollar became the greatest Ponzi of all. Once Dollar creation [DEBT creation] went into reverse it was game over. Yes, yes Dollar [debt] supply is rising again, but the cat is out of the bag, EVERYONE KNOWS! We have been experiencing the greatest currency crises in history and the paper pushing masters of the universe have tried as hard as they could to discredit the ultimate in currencies. It is right there for all to see, a two tier market for the metals. An “official” market price and the real market clearing price to obtain the real thing. Governments throughout history have run this same scam with meat, bread, milk, clothing etc. and shortages always pop their ugly heads up. Did they not think metals would go into shortage? Now they know that from shortages will grow a panic to change paper for metal. And there you have it, the global call for Bretton Woods II. Because THEY KNOW! Regards, Bill H.

Shipping and comments from … Italy’s Finance Minister

From Ambrose Evans-Pritchard,

Snip:

‘ The commodity and emerging market booms are breaking in unison, leaving no more bubbles left to burst. Almost every corner of the world is now being drawn into the vortex of debt deflation.

‘ The freight rates for Capesize vessels used to ship grains, coal, and iron ore have fallen 95pc to $11,600 since May, hence the bankruptcy of Odessa’s Industrial Carriers last week with a fleet of 52 vessels. Cargo deliveries dropped 15.2pc at the US Port of Long Beach last month, but that is a lagging indicator.

‘ From what I have been able to find out, shipping is slowing as fast as it did in the grim months of late 1931. “The crisis is now in full swing across the entire world,” said Giulio Tremonti, Italy’s finance minister. “It is hitting the real economy, the productive forces of industry. It’s global, it’s total, and it’s everywhere,” he said. ‘

tinyurl.com/6qhonl

@ www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/

Maya; more on shipping

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/10/shipping-stats-long-beach-ca-los.html

On Silver

What a standout day for silver! In addition to gold dropping sharply, crude oil fell $3.36 to $70.89 per barrel. Copper dropped 11 cents to $2 per pound. Yet, silver managed to put in a stellar performance, taking out the key $10 psychological resistance level.

What’s going on?…

*Silver is way, way too depressed and oversold.

*The silver open interest dropped another 753 contracts to 96,999, a new multi-year low. The specs have been blow out by JP Morgan Chase and HSBC. There are few left for the silver price managers to gun for.

*The efforts by the silver crowd, led by Jason Hommel and friends, is creating a stir about how CHEAP Comex silver is, especially when one dealer after another is OUT. The whole affair is absurd. OUT!!!

*In that regard, a great deal of attention is being focused on the December Comex contract. Investors are urged to take delivery if they can come up with the $50,000 freight tag. This growing attention has to have the shorts very nervous as we head towards first notice day.

Peter R…

As I look at Kitco and see gold down $25 today while silver is up, I am inclined to believe that the strategy of buying up 1000 oz bars for re-smelting into smaller sizes is having its desired effect. As the sellers on Comex realize that more and more buyers intend to take delivery of silver, they must curtail sales unbacked by real metal — which means most Comex sales. As buyers also step up to empty the Comex gold coffers we should soon see similar strength in that metal, as well. It’s very early to call this but today may be an important moment. The manipulators will soon be faced with allowing much higher precious metal prices, or closing down the exchange altogether — which will let price discovery move elsewhere in the world, beyond their grasp.
Best wishes,
Peter R.

And so……the LEH busted write downs? Supressed news

All day I’ve been looking….
…and the bastards (pardon my German) have covered this entire operation up with ONE HUGE WET non MEDIA blanket.

Interesting fact in that alone……..

So……..from Goldies, here’s what we know thus far

Lehmann -what Ike found so far

Lehman default swaps still pending, DTCC says
By Laura Mandaro, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:31 p.m. EDT Oct. 21, 2008
This update corrects and clarifies that final settlement is still pending.
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — An industry clearing organization said late Tuesday that it was still awaiting final results from the settlement of Lehman Brothers’ credit-default swaps, a massive financial transfer that would add significant support to a recovery in the credit markets.

The Depository Trust & Clearing Corp. will issue a statement when the settlement is completed, according to spokeswoman Melanie Best. She declined to comment on timing.

Payments under these derivatives contracts have to be made by the close of business Tuesday.
The International Swaps and Derivatives Association, the group that represents swaps dealers, issued a statement just before 6 p.m. Eastern noting the “success” of the Lehman settlement.
“Today’s settlement demonstrates that the industry infrastructure for [credit-default swaps] clearly works,” said Robert Pickel, chief executive of the ISDA.

The exchange between the buyers and sellers of credit-default swaps, a type of derivative contract that pays out when a company reneges on its debt, spooked markets Tuesday. Some investors worried sellers would be unable to come up with the cash to pay their counterparties, and these no-shows would usher in a new round of bank or fund failures.

This type of domino effect turned what started as a U.S. housing-market collapse into a global credit crisis.

“Settlement of Lehman’s CDS is what has the market on the nervous side,” said Peter Cardillo, chief market economist at Avalon Partners, said earlier Tuesday about the credit-default swaps.

The major U.S. stock indexes briefly scaled back declines late in the session after reports that counterparties had closed the swaps settlement without a hitch. See Market Snapshot.
Global interest rates spiked and lending contracted after Lehman Brothers (LEHMQ
Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc
News, chart, profile, more

LEHMQ) declared bankruptcy in mid-September, a failure that risked taking some of the firm’s numerous trading partners down with it.
The bankruptcy also triggered a relatively rare event in the $50 trillion market for credit-default swaps: the requirement that holders of protection on Lehman debt get paid by the sellers of these swaps.
An Oct. 10 auction determined terms of the payout. Buyers of protection against a Lehman default were slated to receive 91.375 cents for every dollar of Lehman debt they held. See full story.
The overall size of the payout was expected to be as much as $400 billion. But if the counterparties’ offsetting trades are taken into account, the Depository Trust and Clearing Corp. has forecast that sellers of the protection may only have to cough up about $6 billion.
The credit-default swap settlement comes as stressed credit markets showed some early signs of recovery.
The cost of short-term borrowing continued its recent fall Tuesday.
The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, for three-month dollar loans fell to 3.83375% from 4.05875% the previous day. The decline follows a sharp drop of about 35 basis points, or 0.35 of a percentage point, on Monday. See Libor story.
Still, there are more companies at risk of default and more debt outstanding than in several years, and credit-default swaps may cause continued headaches for credit markets, said John Atkins, a fixed-income analyst at IDEAGlobal.
Going forward, “workouts can be much more convoluted,” he added. “This doesn’t mean things can’t go wrong.” Laura Mandaro is a reporter for MarketWatch in San Francisco.

> Pay-up time for Lehman swaps
> By Kim Asger Olsen
>
> This Tuesday will be the first really interesting day in the financial
> markets since the day last week when US Treasury Secretary Paulson
> partially nationalized the nine largest US banks. October 21 sees the
> settlement of the credit default swaps (CDS) issued on Lehman Brothers
> debt.
>
> First the facts. A CDS, or credit default swap, is essentially an
> insurance against losses if an issuer of debt goes bankrupt and cannot
> honor its obligations.
Those who have sold the protection will then
> compensate the loss to those who have bought the protection. Estimates
> say that Lehman debt amounts to some US$150 billion. Other estimates
> say that Tuesday will see settlement of about $360 billion worth of
> nominal CDS contracts.
>
> Sounds fishy? Insured debt of $360 billion while the total
> outstanding of Lehman debt amounts to only $150 billion? The
> explanation is a simple one, that the CDS are not necessarily linked
> to the buyer of the credit insurance in fact holding any Lehman debt.
> To put it in different terms: a CDS is the financial market equivalent
> of being able to take out an insurance that will pay out money to you
> in case your neighbor’s house burns down.
>
> This situation is indicative of something that ought to have everybody
> hold their breath for a second. CDS were originally meant as insurance
> for holders of debt. But in absence of rules, oversight and regulation
> CDS became instruments of speculation, where the buyer and the seller
> took bets on Lehman’s future. If the above estimates are true, and if
> we make the friendly assumption that $150 billion worth of nominal
> contracts are indeed bought by the actual holders of Lehman’s debt, no
> less than $210 billion worth of speculative bets will have to be
> settled on Tuesday.
>
> If the recent prices of Lehman debt is anything to go by (between
> eight cents and nine cents in the dollar), this settlement will lead
> to some $190 billion changing hands - from sellers to buyers of
> “default protection”.

>
> To get the order of magnitude right: the amount changing hands
> corresponds to nearly three months of US current account deficit.
>
> A gain of 91 cents or so for each underlying of $1 is not a bad return
> on a few minutes work. In other words, those who speculated on
> Lehman’s collapse are looking forward to a huge pay day. Or are they?
>
> Certainly, some of the biggest players, such as the fully nationalized
> AIG and the nine partly nationalized banks, are big players in this
> game. It is inconceivable that some of them are not on the
> underwriting side and have sold the protection, irrespective of
> whether the buyer actually held Lehman debt or was just another
> gambler in the market. Now an interesting new dilemma is appearing:
> will the US Treasury accept that potentially huge sums of taxpayer
> money be used to pay speculators who were right in guessing that the
> US Treasury would allow Lehman to fail.
> It is known in the market that AIG has asked the US Treasury for some
> $20 billion-plus on top of the bailout package of $85 billion agreed
> three weeks ago. It is also widely guessed in the market that that $20
> billion is earmarked to meet AIG’s obligations related to Lehman debt.
> We have not started to talk about other defunct debt issuers yet -
> notably Bear Stearns or Washington Mutual.
>
> Being among those who have to shell out $190 billion is enough to give
> other institutions a powerful push in the direction of insolvency. For
> this reason alone, the US Treasury is facing a serious choice: use
> taxpayer money to reward speculators or try to limit the damage. One
> possible avenue would be to demand that those who have bought
> protection actually prove that they held Lehman debt, and pay them,
> but refuse to pay those who had speculated. This could be a
> politically attractive way out of an interesting moral dilemma.
>
> Morals are always interesting to discuss. For our purposes it is,
> however, more relevant to look at the potential impact on the CDS
> market. It is estimated that CDS to the value of $55,000 billion or
> $55 trillion have been sold in relation to corporate debt. Given that
> the CDS market is unregulated, it is at this point in unknown how many
> of those “protection” contracts are purely speculative, as are about
> two-thirds of the Lehman contracts. It is unknown who issued them and
> we do not know the buyers. What we do know is that the settlement of
> the Lehman CDS will be an important indicator for whether this market
> will be the next to melt down as the subprime market has already done.
>
> Probably, most of the CDS are issued on non-financial companies, and
> some even on sovereign issuers. This could indicate that we are not
> heading for a total meltdown, as the rate of corporate bankruptcies
> obviously will not go through the roof (unless we really are heading
> for a depression … an interesting thought).
>
> But it is almost certain that hedge funds are among the big holders of
> speculative default protection. If the settlement of Lehman CDS gives
> rise to any glitches, the huge CDS market will be shaken and it is
> likely we will see a scramble for the exit as holders of “protection”
> realize that they may not be protected at all.
>
> Readers will recall the ancient Chinese curse: May you live in
> interesting times! Sometimes a bit of boredom should be welcomed.
>
> Note
> 1. The Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation, which clears the
> vast majority of trades in the US over-the-counter market, said this
> month only $6 billion may actually change hands, Reuters reported
> early on Tuesday. This is because large players in the market, such as
> dealers and some hedge funds, have both bought and sold protection,
> subsequently taking both gains and losses on Lehman’s default that
> will offset each other, the report said.

GoldBalloon - Didn’t realize that the Exchange

was still closed to the public.

My father (deceased) who taugh Business Admin at the Univ of Hartford use to take his students to Wall St to get the feel of the place.

Goldballoon………You out do yourself every freaking time !

………fantastic Pics of Wall Street….

….love the way you take the bull by the Horns !!

…..That looks like a Golden Bull BTW!

……….Bon Journey from Mme Crown !

Winedoc 21:31

 O, it was well worth the short wait for the Choc martooni at Freedom Inn (Hi Kyle)

Trust me brother, I will keep wearing the gold :-)

“We have time to grow old, the air is still full of our cries”

Still love this one :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmoDMdLoUZw

Stay gold Doc  , cheers

Gold Drought hits Spain..from Midas

Hi Bill!
Just checking in to report Spain’s biggest dealer is out of gold stock except for Kilo and 1/2 Kilo bars. No silver. They are still advertising 1oz silver Phillarmonics at EUR 18. At today’s change, that is USD 24. Only 2.5 times the COMEX price. A Mogambo Laugh of Doom (MLD) got out of my nervous mouth: Hahahaha!. There are some silver Kilo silver bars left if you are in the mood to pay the price,
a more modest 2.3xCOMEX: EUR 547

www.orodirect.es/productos/2/lingotes_de_metales_preciosos.html

At the home page, there is a message in red, new from last week. Ihave translated it for your enjoyment:

www.orodirect.es/home.html

“IMPORTANT MESSAGE.

Dear customers: we are in serious difficulty to handle the big volume of orders and phone calls coming in.

Because of this, the only items we can deliver right now (some of them within 5 days) are the ones shown in the product list.

Some articles, like the 100gr. gold ingot and the 1oz. silver Phillarmonic are out of stock and will not be in stock for the next five weeks.

Because of the strong global gold demand and limited availability an improvement of the situation is not expected in the short run.

Please try to order through our online store and you will receive your order confirmation as soon as possible.

Thanks for your business, patience and understanding.”
Vincent

It seems we are seeing this phenomenon showing up in one country after another. Is that what bear markets are all about? Heck no. It is more evidence of western governments conspiring to keep gold and silver out of the hands of their public … by making more and more unavailable.

These growing retail gold/silver shortages due to extraordinary demand are contrary to collapsing oil, copper and other commodities, where the pundits are citing tanking demand for the price swoons. It is also contrary to what occurred in the late 1970’s when the price of gold and silver made their big moves. Dave from Denver…

Don in Denver, who had his own commodities firm during the last gold rush in the 1970’s:

The difference between now and the bullion/futures markets in late 70’s and 1980:

There was no such discrepency in price between the physical mkt and the COMEX or Chicago Board of Trade in those days. Coins and bullion were always readily available and futures traded at the normal spreads over spot. In fact a huge supply of household silver disappeared during that period as housewives cashed in their jewelry and place settings.

The metals prices were manipulated but nowhere near the extent that is occurring today. The Chicago Board of Trade did a real number on the Hunts to get their members out of the hole the Hunt’s had them in by changing the rules, raising margin requirements, and limiting trades to Liquidations only. It was the exchange members who held the other side of the Hunt’s position. Just as it is today in both the gold and silver markets. The difference is that back then people were more likely to sell their physical gold and silver rather than buy it, like is happening today.

Today’s two tiered metals pricing will eventually be the demise of the COMEX. Unless world wide demand for physical bullion disappears, COMEX will eventually become a discount market as smart money uses them as a supplier to resell into the real physical market. Taking delivery is not that big of a pain given the wide premiums that exist in the markets today.

It is the total scarcity of bullion and tightness of supply that distinguishes this gold rush from the earlier rush in 1980.